Front Setup?

Post by **CBR_TOY** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:47 am

what's everyone running setup wise on the front?
i.e. camber/caster/toe/tire pressure/front tires(treadwear/brand)

i'm just wondering.....

Grips:
195-55-14
Toyo T1R's @32p.s.i.

springs:
Swift 7" 8kg/mm

perch:
Ebay coilover perches (or similar)

shocks:
AGX 4 way adjustables (SW20 shocks) in shortened 86 casings.

toe:
?

camber:
-2.5Â°

caster:
1.5ish

steering:
-ps rack (disabled ps)

ga_goosh · Post by **ga_goosh** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:12 pm

man i havent even got my car set up enough to even begin to think of alignment. but my tires are what ever the used tire shop had lol im going to keep an eye on this thread for some ideas for later

Post by **dr.occa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:22 pm

slippers:
185-55-14
Falken Ziex

springs:
QA1 7" 450lbs (8kg)

perch:
QA1 coilover perches (or similar)

shocks:
AGX 4 way adjustables (SW20 shocks) in shortened 86 casings.

toe:
0 (it's an approximation since i do my alignments on my own)

camber:
-3.5Â° (see the "toe" disclaimer

)

caster:
2Â° (see the "camber" disclaimer

) by way of T3 adjustable rods

steering:
-manual rack
-ps steering knuckles
-bv inner tie rod spacers v2.0
-bv ncrcas

ga_goosh · Post by **ga_goosh** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:24 pm

dr.occa wrote: steering:
-manual rack
-ps steering knuckles
-bv inner tie rod spacers v2.0
-bv ncrcas

wow angle for days. can you even get to full lock before rubbing?

Post by **dr.occa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:50 pm

ga_goosh wrote:
dr.occa wrote: steering:
-manual rack
-ps steering knuckles
-bv inner tie rod spacers v2.0
-bv ncrcas
wow angle for days. can you even get to full lock before rubbing?

believe it or not, no rubbage whatsoever. thanks to the lower profile tires and my friend peter gabriel a.k.a "sledgehammer". :D

(my apologies ahead of time for being narcissistic) here's the angle you speak of:

kevlar corolla · Post by **kevlar corolla** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:19 pm

Depends on what your doing with the car,grip driving means keeping the castor very close to stock,camber in the -2.5 range,toe at 0.
I'd run no sway bars(crazy I know,only telling what works and what doesn't-sways slow you down plain and simple),with a front spring rate of no more than 450(I'd suggest 350 for street tires actually),rear rate between 175 and 250.
A good set of short strokes,by good I mean koni race-everything else from japan has WAY WAY too much compression damping-car feels responsive but it'll still be slow.The other usual dampers are junk,not enough damping for those rates above(and they are quite soft)and will puke the seals in short order.

I know this goes agaisn't pretty much all the internet wisdom out there but I've been there for 9 years with the same car and have nearly tried it all.

Post by **dr.occa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:28 pm

kevlar corolla wrote:Depends on what your doing with the car,grip driving means keeping the castor very close to stock,camber in the -2.5 range,toe at 0.
I'd run no sway bars(crazy I know,only telling what works and what doesn't-sways slow you down plain and simple),with a front spring rate of no more than 450(I'd suggest 350 for street tires actually),rear rate between 175 and 250.
A good set of short strokes,by good I mean koni race-everything else from japan has WAY WAY too much compression damping-car feels responsive but it'll still be slow.The other usual dampers are junk,not enough damping for those rates above(and they are quite soft)and will puke the seals in short order.

I know this goes agaisn't pretty much all the internet wisdom out there but I've been there for 9 years with the same car and have nearly tried it all.

share, by all means kevlar, share. no worries. did you ever get my pm by chance and did you ever resolve your issue. sorry for off topicness folks.

mexellent · Post by **mexellent** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:03 am

kevlar corolla wrote:Depends on what your doing with the car,grip driving means keeping the castor very close to stock,camber in the -2.5 range,toe at 0.
I'd run no sway bars(crazy I know,only telling what works and what doesn't-sways slow you down plain and simple),with a front spring rate of no more than 450(I'd suggest 350 for street tires actually),rear rate between 175 and 250.
A good set of short strokes,by good I mean koni race-everything else from japan has WAY WAY too much compression damping-car feels responsive but it'll still be slow.The other usual dampers are junk,not enough damping for those rates above(and they are quite soft)and will puke the seals in short order.

I know this goes agaisn't pretty much all the internet wisdom out there but I've been there for 9 years with the same car and have nearly tried it all.

Youre not crazy.

If youve got adjustable sway bars, its way easier to adjust sway bars than it is to adjust spring rates. So in my eyes, thats the only upside of sway bars, is the adjustability. The downside of sway bars is they connect the left and the right wheel. So during cornering, the car leans and the outer wheel is compressed. Since the wheels are connected with the sway bars, the compressed outside wheel is pulling up the drooping inside wheel. All that inside wheel wants to do is come down and give you grip, but the sway bar prevents it from doing that. By getting rid of the sway bar and increasing the rear spring rate, you increase your rear roll stiffness without compromising your inside tire grip.

Formula Ford's have to run open diffs and they run without rear roll bars to keep them from spinning the inside tire.

kevlar corolla · Post by **kevlar corolla** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:46 pm

Yep the wheels tied together is the big problem,to fight roll the outside wheel is loaded with weight that should be in the inside wheel.Now since tire grip is not in porportion to vertical load grip is reduced.
Sways are fine for a street car,in fact I'd stay with the use of bars on one to keep the spring rate and ride reasonable.They are a great way to tune the balance as well.
I've alwasy been a fan of the balanced approuch using springs and bars to produce the roll resistance but the more I tried the slower I got untill I started to go softer and then finally unhooking the bars.I went back and forth a few times just to prove the car was better without them,every time I unhooked the car felt better so...they stayed off.

Jonas,the problem seemd to be the signal generator-changed it and the car fired right up and ran fine.Ran it a half dozen times to be sure right up to temp and all was good,went to start it a couple days later and it was back to the same crap.

So I did what had been on my mind for months but needed a little push-I parted the car out so I can design and build a new competition car from scratch.

I have an 8 point caged shell complete with the worlds only composite corolla for sale,3k canadian funds with all the moulds to make another composite corolla.

Post by **dr.occa** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:13 pm

kevlar corolla wrote:...

Jonas,the problem seemd to be the signal generator-changed it and the car fired right up and ran fine.Ran it a half dozen times to be sure right up to temp and all was good,went to start it a couple days later and it was back to the same crap.

So I did what had been on my mind for months but needed a little push-I parted the car out so I can design and build a new competition car from scratch.

I have an 8 point caged shell complete with the worlds only composite corolla for sale,3k canadian funds with all the moulds to make another composite corolla.

noooooooo! well, you know what you're doing tom. that car of yours would be a fine fetch for who ever gets their hands on it.

decided on a platform yet?

Post by **CBR_TOY** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:25 pm

stole your format on the description jonas

so for better grip on say a road course you unhooked your sways?

kevlar corolla · Post by **kevlar corolla** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:19 pm

What I would do on a road course was to run the front bar on the softest setting to give the front a little less bite-this was just to make sure I didn't have any BIG moments at 100mph getting loose.
I always intended to test with the front unhooked but I was either having too much fun or had other things to do/deal with to try it though.

Getting waaay off topic and I'm sorry but what I'm up to is designing a single seater with a twist-the engine will be mounted where the driver normally sits.The engine will be a hypersports bike engine around 185hp(haven't bought it yet-still looking),I will sit on the right side across from the engine to equalize left/right side weights.The hubs,brakes and diff etc are from a miata parts car I have to save costs,the control arms and pickup points are all being designed with only 1 goal-max grip.Wheelbase should be around 88",still working on the chassis design and the space all the stuff needs.
Target weight is 900lbs +driver,shouldn't be too hard to acheive as it'll only have a minimal nose section in bodywork and the rest will be open like an atom.

Back on topic,it will not use sway bars.

Post by **CBR_TOY** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:15 pm

like this guy?

Post by **dr.occa** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:59 pm

the description is almost reminiscent of sprint/dwarf racing setups. can't wait to see it tom!

kevlar corolla · Post by **kevlar corolla** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:55 pm

I've studied that wicked civic,its an amazing build-the guy is a retired engineer and used most of the suspension parts from his former D sports racer.His car uses the engine transvers and with a chain drive.
My design has the engine mounted north/south and on the opposite side so an adater can be used off of the countershaft to connect to a driveshaft and then to a conventional rear housing.I looked into chain drive diffs and to buy a complete unit is large coin(would be close to 5k for me).People have built their own many times but have some serious hurdles like how to mount the sprocket to the diff and more importantly how to keep the diff lubed without it flinging all over the place.
After all the 1 off stuff I did with the corolla I want simple,stock bike engine driving a stock car based diff-it'll be enough work just building all the parts without reinventing the wheel to boot.